class/skill tree

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class/skill tree

Postby kaizere » Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:29 pm

wouldn't it be great if the heroine of this game can choose a specific class that goes on a specific skill tree with their preferred weapon..for example..while using the rifle..you can choose a sniper class that has some unique usable/passive skills and using a daggers goes on a dual wielder class(o that also has different unique abilities..that can also be upgrade to another more powerful class like sergeant sniper(the class name is kinda lame sorry :cry: )...
I'm really excited about this game especially when i look at the inventory that has 15 equippable items..hope it will change the characters appearance...

good luck guys!!!!
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class/skill tree

Postby ROBOT » Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:29 pm

Oh, hey kaizere !

class/skill tree? Humm, interesting!
Well well, let's see what others have to say on that matter :geek:
I personally think that class/skill tree...
Nah, i dunno... never mind...

I 'm just here to raise the post count. What do i know, right?
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Re: class/skill tree

Postby Tzolak » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:25 pm

Would be an interesting thought to play with, but it'll make the game too much like your typical MMO...
I like having a class system, but if it's a story RPG, that doesn't make much sense to me...
Then again, I like seeing games that have a class system, where you have a combat class and a non-combat class (crafting/cooking etc), where each one has it's set skill tree, BUT the skill trees are somewhat interconnected so that if you have a high combat skill, you can get better materials for your non-combat set.
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Re: class/skill tree

Postby Scisco » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:59 pm

Is it just me or did they change the autoresponse to something more... uplifting. Or is this ROBOT a real person.... either way its kinda funny/impressive in its own way no matter what the answer to the question is :28:

the time stamp does give it away tho... or does it? Du Da Dooooooooooooooo! :17:
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Re: class/skill tree

Postby kaizere » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:42 pm

Scisco wrote:Is it just me or did they change the autoresponse to something more... uplifting. Or is this ROBOT a real person.... either way its kinda funny/impressive in its own way no matter what the answer to the question is :28:

the time stamp does give it away tho... or does it? Du Da Dooooooooooooooo! :17:


he only mentioned my title though..
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Re: class/skill tree

Postby Shu » Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:30 pm

I'm not in favor for class/skill tree's, in roguelikes you already can RP as any class without the game saying "you're a sniper"
I'm not sure about your experience when it comes to these kinds of games, but usually the items you find determine for the most part how you're going to play, adding classes/skill tree's could give you incredibly anti-fun playthroughs, as in you invest all your points into the sniper tree, yet you never find any good rifles, just mediocre ones, while you end up finding extremely rare swords/shields and other weapons, while a roguelike that doesn't have skill/class tree's you're way more flexible, drops become more meaningful and you don't have to regret any choices you made related to your build.

Adding skill tree's is kinda like telling you how to play the game. If you plan on using a gun then you need to invest in __ skills.

It would require the game to be completely balanced around this idea and could add an extra year to the development of the game if it's not already planned.
Also I was told there's 20 equipment slots in the game, the developer has to also take under consideration for creating structured drops otherwise too many builds are unplayable, look at sword of the star and TOME.

In Dungeons of Dredmor, none of the weapon tree's are fun for a lot of people, and a good amount of people can come to an agreement to avoid the polearm tree (It's very hard to find polearms and the developers did not balance their drop rate alongside other weapons)
There's a lot more I can think of, but that's just some.
However I'm all for the idea that the more you use something, the more you learn about it. Shoot a sniper rifle enough times, and your proficiency with those types increase and you might even learn a skill/passive with it. Or you can just buy skills from NPC's, and they're just called skills, not "sniper: ranged shot"

I'm just basing my opinion off of other games of the roguelike genre. That feeling where you go through a whole run of SOTS:the pit only to never get a pistol.

After we see more of the game, my opinions may change.
With 20 equipment slots you can just look for gear that benefit sniping. Maybe have special sniper rifles with bonus effects (ignites enemies/pierces enemies hitting any target behind them/rapid fire)
And in a sense, those are kinda like skills but they're attached to the weapon, and is easier to balance.

Shorter version of what I'm trying to say
If it's a traditional roguelike when it comes to difficulty, then creating class/skill tree's causes playthroughs to feel linear as a lot of content is locked away from the player. (the game is balanced around you having a decent build, so trying to use your rare weapons which you didn't invest any points into will only lead to your demise)
Basically play the entire game as a sniper vs Changing up depending on the situation, or adapting to the situation based on what loot you find.
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Re: class/skill tree

Postby Shu » Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:04 am

oops, going to correct myself, now that I recall the character is kinda like a class as is, the werewolf idea on the stretchgoal and morgiana being able to teleport.

So maybe the game already has tree's.
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Re: class/skill tree

Postby Mike Nilun » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:06 am

Shu wrote:However I'm all for the idea that the more you use something, the more you learn about it.


That's always fun. To be honest, I'd rather do THAT than have an allotment points to apply every time I level up. It feels more rewarding that way, instead of forcing me to ask the question, "Where did this sudden increased expertise at swords come from, when five minutes ago I was so much weaker?"

When you practice and practice with a weapon until you're good enough to defeat XY boss/enemy with it, it feels more rewarding when you can finally win. Whereas, if you bide your time and do one of any number of various things to earn X level, it doesn't necessarily make as much sense when you spent all your time shooting a slingshot only to defeat the boss by smacking him with a 2x4.
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Re: class/skill tree

Postby Randis » Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:57 am

Class/job tree is our of budget for this one, a feature like that is a bit out of scope for DFS but we want the characters to play differently enough but with least limitations possible.
I love MMO RPGs, did play FF XI a lot, Ragnarok, some WOW, Lineage II and FF XIV, even some free mmos like flyFF but those games have much higher production budgets we don't have yet :02:
For our future projects for sure!
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Re: class/skill tree

Postby Scisco » Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:01 am

Very nice points Shu. And yeah... the pit and its drop system is just funny sometimes. I was, i think, at like lvl 10-12 and not a single new gun had dropped :12: my first weapon was broken n all and, for some reason, all i could find was these powerups for the laser stuff :?

It did not end well :32: therefore im happy that DFS got shops and stuff so u can atleast BUY ur basic gear.

Which also brings up a question... will Survival/Labyrinth have some kind of base(hometown) where u can buy/sell stuff or is it hoping for the merchant the only way to sell/buy?

I do like a base town that u can connect to somehow. It brings a sense of "home", like say Nexus/Firelink/Majula in darksouls series, tristam, even rl's like ADOM got it. Its basically a shop but it does so much for the sense of the game. I dident really get the same thing from the vending machines in Dungeons of dredmor :roll:
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